10 Year Deconversion Anniversary

Deconversion, Podcast, Secular Grace
Listen on Apple Podcasts

Reflections on ten years of deconversion. I re-tell my deconversion story and reflect on what has changed and what has stayed the same.

Links

Voices of Deconversion appearance:

https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/voices-of-deconversion-517840/episodes/027-david-ames-part-1-jesus-te-23394281

https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/voices-of-deconversion-517840/episodes/027-david-ames-part-2-tells-hi-23575841

Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/

Secular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/

Apostate: Stories of Deconversion

https://amzn.to/4rj7TA6

Interact

Join the Deconversion Anonymous Facebook group!

Graceful Atheist Podcast Merch!
https://www.teepublic.com/user/gracefulatheistpodcast

Support the podcast
Patreon https://www.patreon.com/gracefulatheist
Paypal: paypal.me/gracefulatheist

Secular Grace
https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/

Deconversion
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/

Deconstruction
https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/#deconstruction

What’s My Purpose Now?

Atheism, Communities of Unbelief, Humanism, Meaning, Mental Health, purpose

When we’re in the thick of Christianity, we’re bombarded with the idea that if we leave we’ll no longer have purpose or meaning in life. Our life’s purpose is given to us by the church, and if we “turn our backs on them,” we have nothing.

But it’s simply not true.

I turned once again to our online community to find out how some atheists find meaning in life, and the answers are beautiful. If you’ve left religion, only to find life on the other side, please comment below.

  • “If anything I think being an atheist has made me appreciate this life even more. Like if we only get one, I can cherish it a lot more.”
  • “My life has meaning when I experience it and don’t run from it. Whether it’s a sweet time snuggling with my kids and reading a book together or a harder day where my mind just won’t work for me, if I’m experiencing my life, then it’s meaningful to me. I don’t need a divine purpose to find meaning anymore. It’s just there.”
  • “Get as close to the beauty of the earth as possible. Be present and breathe. Practice self-compassion and extend loving kindness to others.”
  • “I don’t find any ultimate meaning in life anymore. But I still find it worth living, and that’s good enough.”
  • “I think you have to make meaning. For me, loving my family is the most important thing. Helping others and making the world a better place are much more important and meaningful to me now than “saving” others ever was.”
  • “Honestly, I’m relieved about not having the pressure to be a world changer and having a higher purpose. I never felt like my life was measuring up to its true purpose when I was in Christianity, and I spent too much time worrying about decisions, being afraid I was going to make the wrong one.”
  • “Without eternity, each second of this life is precious. Loved ones, nature, my kitties, and pursuing my hobbies bring me fulfillment.”
  • “As an atheist, I find more meaning in everything because I’m rooted in reality, in the present, in the here and now, not some nebulous, unproven future afterlife. We shouldn’t be ‘coping’ with the idea that this is the ‘only life’. We should be celebrating it. Meaning is what we make. This life is what we make. It always has been (even when we thought it was god). I don’t need a higher purpose or a higher power. I never did.”
  • “Knowing this is the only life I have, I’ve learned to live in the here and now. Appreciating the beauty that surrounds and embracing life’s mysteries without having to do any mental gymnastics.”

I received dozens more answers to this question that I could share here. If these answers resonate with you, then our private Facebook group may be a good space to check out.

“I have the nerve to walk my own way, however hard, in my search for reality, rather than climb upon the rattling wagon of wishful illusions.” –Zora Neale Hurston

How Stoicism Helps

Blog Posts

This week I’ll discuss a few ideas from Stoicism and how they helped me during my deconstruction and eventual deconversion.

Before I do, I’d like to follow up on something I wrote earlier. In “Intro: Stoicism for Deconstructors,” I wrote:

It’s not my goal to “convert” you or convince you but to inform you. Stoicism is not one-size-fits-all, and I can’t know you like you know you. But having some conscious philosophy of life is essential.

I want to backpedal a bit: I’m not prepared to say that coming to some concrete philosophy of life is essential. It may be that for a long while, we need to spend our energy recovering from a lifetime of unreasonable expectations while being the best people we can be without overthinking it.

I will say that having a conscious philosophy of life can make answering some questions much easier, add richness and depth to your life, and help you on your way to tranquility.

Now on to Stoicism.

What is Philosophy?

At some point, I realized I needed to leave church, but I didn’t know where to begin. It seemed so overwhelming. Thankfully, I had already started reading the Stoics, and they have opinions on where to begin.

The Stoics and other ancients believed that philosophy was the “art of living.” People who lived deliberately and reflected on their lives were philosophers. Very different from the current perspective that treats philosophy as a purely academic discipline.

The art of living requires knowledge, so they encouraged learning theory, but it didn’t matter until you put it into practice.

Why does this matter?

Many of us grew up in a context where we were told the rules and expected to follow them. Losing that set of rules can be bewildering, to say the least. Learning to think differently about the art of living can help us make sense of an uncertain and constantly changing world.

Excellence of Character

When I was in the throes of deconstruction, especially after I realized I would have to leave the church, I can’t say I was thinking much about meaning. I was in survival mode. However, after I finally resigned my church membership, I realized I had to learn how to build community for myself and make my own meaning. For me, the Stoics provided a great starting place.

The Stoics believed that excellence of character, being the best human you can be, was the goal of life. They thought you would achieve eudaimonia, or flourishing, if you pursued this goal.

In Intro: Stoicism for Deconstructors, I wrote:

Humans are rational and social, so to be the best human we can, we must pursue excellence of character first by getting better at thinking clearly, and by practicing living well, especially in the context of the people and world around us.

This means to live a fulfilling life, we need to develop our character in the service of those around us and, ultimately, humanity.

It also means ethical action is centered around our character, not some rules handed to us thousands of years ago and interpreted by other people. Ethics, not mere obedience.

Why does this matter?

Since Stoicism is a kind of Humanism, it gives us a place in this world and provides us a tribe. At a fundamental level, there is no Us and Them. We’re all in this together. Stoicism gives us a practical way of working through that reality and helps us adopt all of humanity as our own.

All this gives us something significant to live for: the betterment of the human race. It’s actionable and direct. As we work on our character, we can see the benefits immediately as we benefit the people around us. In the words of the band Gojira, “When you change yourself, you change the world.”

Making the growth of my character a primary goal has been very fulfilling, not to mention clarifying.

Sorting Emotions

In my circles of Christianity, emotions weren’t talked about much except to warn about how untrustworthy they were. Making sense of these emotions was not a thing that was taught very much other than to direct people to prayer.

The Stoics distinguished between some key concepts:

  • Impressions. These are mental representations of the world around you. Things like “That cake would be good to eat.” or “That person is angry at you.” You can’t control these impressions.
  • Response to the impressions. These are either “yes,” “no,” or “maybe.” You can control this response.
  • Emotions. These result from that response and push you to some action. Sometimes this action is only to get upset. You can control these emotions.

Like Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, Stoics believed that your emotions are often the result of underlying beliefs.

Also, having a concept like “impressions,” which aren’t up to you, gives you a place to put intrusive thoughts, knee-jerk reactions, and other emotional-related things that aren’t under your power.

Why does this matter?

This one has been so powerful for me. I no longer feel guilty for intrusive thoughts (like unwanted sexual thoughts or imagining pushing someone over a cliff). These days I just roll my eyes and move on. No longer do I feel completely helpless to address my emotional difficulties. I can rely on the practices of Stoicism and problem-solving from Cognitive Behavioral Therapy to address the underlying issues leading to the emotions that I am having trouble with.

Planning for Setbacks

I think people generally don’t do a lot of planning for setbacks, so when they happen, they are often caught flatfooted. I don’t think Christianity is unique regarding this lack of preparation.

Because the Stoics realized it was difficult to address emotional issues in the moment, they took as much action as they could to prepare for future challenges. One way they did this was through the premeditatio malorum, or premeditation of ills.

The idea was to imagine vividly some negative thing happening, then imagine yourself handling it successfully. By the time the event came around, you’d have taken some of the sting away and bought yourself some space to manage it more wisely.

(This can be abused. If a company CEO is planning unjust layoffs and uses this technique to reduce the sting of feeling bad about hurting a bunch of fellow humans, that CEO is not being virtuous, even though they might be imitating something the Stoics did. They are not practicing Stoicism.)

Why does this matter?

This premeditation is an example of the pragmatism that I like about Stoicism. Christianity tends to spiritualize everything and, therefore, often doesn’t have consistent or reliable ways of addressing real-life issues.

Conclusion

There’s so much more, but my main goal here has been to introduce you to some of the ways Stoics think about life. Hopefully, this has been helpful to you!

We are nearly done with Stoicism for now, but I would like to spend a couple of posts talking about some practical, specific Stoic ideas.

Finding Secular Community

Blog Posts, Communities of Unbelief, Deconversion, Secular Community

This week we have a post from a Deconversion Anoymous community member.


Every deconvert with an experience of lost, lapsed or damaged relationships over matters of faith has another–likely ongoing–story about the challenge of finding community and friendships afterwards.  There are headwinds here.  While faith change is a growing demographic, it’s still a  niche experience to expect to bond over, and societal trends make socialization more difficult for everyone, especially as adults.

There’s not a prescriptive solution.  Everyone has different personalities, abilities, motivations and circumstances.  Someone with religious trauma or other deficits might need the support of a mental health professional before they feel comfortable moving forward.  Someone in a precarious personal situation might need to prioritize stability.  Someone with a family will have to navigate unique tensions and responsibilities.  Success isn’t equitable, may be hard to recognize and may not come early or predictably.  But curiosity and a flexible mindset can help weather disappointment.  Some of it does come down to luck, but self-understanding and persistent determination improve the odds.

In practical terms, here are some things worth considering:

Podcasts

Podcasts are not tailored to our individual needs, and the parasocial affinity we may feel with creators is not a true relationship.  But a collection of trusted, predictable voices can be comforting and provide a sense of inspiration or solidarity when things feel lonely and bleak.

Online Communities

The best podcasts attract likeminded people, and attached online communities are a great way to meet them.  Book clubs and other topical online groups can be similarly selective.  Be adventurous…these spaces may exist on platforms you might not regularly use (reddit, discord, etc.).

This isn’t a panacea.  Not everyone has the technical comfort or time/patience to systematically hunt for new spaces.  Privacy/safety may be a concern.  Demographics aren’t always a good fit.  It can take a lot of effort to participate to a sufficient degree to understand whether something is worthwhile.

It can also feel like there’s a ceiling to the benefit of online interaction.  Chatting with random people is less connecting than with people you recognize.  Text can be impersonal compared to audio or video.  It’s good to consider the constructive social bandwidth of a medium relative to the time we invest in it.

Conferences / Retreats

The national conferences of groups like American Atheists, American Humanist Association, Americans United, etc. (as well as many regional conferences) are great places to put faces to names you might have only met online.  Even if you only meet someone once or if you only run into them at conventions, that can still greatly enrich the sense of connection in interactions continued online.  Travel and expense are considerations, but it’s often worth the effort if it means being able to expand your circle.  Retreats and get-togethers organized by smaller groups can also be worthwhile, though it can be intimidating to trust people you haven’t met.

Meetup / Nextdoor

The quality and relevance of local community listings varies drastically.  Finding something that’s relevant to deconstruction, active and interesting can feel incredibly random, but it’s important to check and keep checking.  Groups form all the time, and widening your criteria to things that may not be specific but still adjacent to other interests can yield unexpected connections.  Keep in mind that people may be organizing under a variety of terms.  Try: atheist, agnostic, freethinker, humanist, deconversion, etc.  Also, look for local groups and forums on more general social platforms.  If it’s focused on your area, then others are finding it too, and if you don’t see what you want, post yourself to see if it connects with anyone.

Congregations

People who leave church usually aren’t immediately interested in another church, but the benefits of congregational organization are hard to replicate.  There may be church-like groups such as Unitarian Universalists that are worth considering.  Many have webcasts so you can see what you might be getting into before visiting.

There are also secular groups like Oasis or Sunday Assembly to be aware of, but their spread is limited.

Volunteering

Civic service, mutual aid and other goal-oriented involvement are great ways to meet new people in a constructive environment.  It can be hard if these seem dominated by religious groups (even if they’re “progressive”) but it’s worth looking at a directory like https://www.volunteermatch.org/ or secular organizations like https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/ for opportunities.

Networking / Directories

The best source of information for local community is often locals who have already done that work.  It doesn’t hurt to try reaching out to any secular people you learn of in your area for advice.

There are secularly-oriented social media and directories that might help you find some of these connections:


Unlike church, secular community is rarely a one-stop destination.  You may need to rely on a more eclectic group of supports and validations than you expect, but in the process you’ll become a more rounded person with skills and perspective that will help surpass this change and ones yet to come.

You’re Worth the Work.

Atheism, Deconversion, Secular Grace, Secular Therapy, Uncategorized

May is Mental Health Awareness Month in the US and one thing that suffers greatly under religion is our mental health.

I spent years believing that my mind was filled with demons. As soon as I stopped praying, the demons left. Almost like they were never real.

One doesn’t have to believe in demons to be manipulated and harmed by religion. Here are some online resources that have helped me and others. They’re resources for anyone who’s left religion, whether you’re “spiritual but not religious” or an atheist.

Take care of yourself. You’re worth the work. 

Online Resources

Graceful Atheist Podcast Episodes

Therapists

Personal Experiences

Whether you’re still a believer or you’ve moved far from your fundamentalist roots, mental health is important. When you need help, seek out help. 

Having a community also makes a difference. If you’re in need of community, consider joining the Deconversion Anonymous private Facebook group. It isn’t professional therapy, but knowing you aren’t alone can go a long way.

Arline

Useful Terms and “Stupid” Questions

Blog Posts

What is “cognitive bias”? What’s the difference between “deconstruction” and “deconversion”?

Deconstruction has been a “thing” on the internet for several years. Joining a movement after it starts might mean there are terms people use all the time without explaining. Moreover, you may feel that asking what they mean will make you look stupid.

I want to try to define a few terms. These definitions may be incorrect in important ways, but they should be less wrong than not knowing. Knowing them may also get you a meaningful part of the way to fuller understanding.

Here goes!

Deconstruction

When I use deconstruction, I mean “digging into the hard questions about your worldview AND being willing to consider doing something different based on your answers.” It doesn’t necessarily result in a complete loss of faith, but it usually does result in some significant change in your beliefs.

I’m not sure I’ve ever heard the word used in a circumstance where somebody became more rigid or conservative. (If you have, please let me know in the comments.)

I have heard it used in place of deconversion. I’m guessing that this mainly has to do with the speed of conversation rather than using a precise definition.

Deconversion

This one is easier to define. It’s a loss of your current faith. Even if lose your faith, you could consider other religions or spiritual paths, not necessarily becoming an atheist or agnostic.

It can happen after a prolonged deconstruction or more quickly after something “clicks,” depending on the person and circumstances.

Cognitive Bias

This term doesn’t show up often, but you may hear the phrase, “confirmation bias.” This is a kind of cognitive bias.

A cognitive bias is a structural flaw in human reason. It has to do with how people think about certain things. Some examples are seeking evidence that supports our beliefs (confirmation bias), seeking evidence that refutes other people’s beliefs (disconfirmation bias), focusing on negative things (negativity bias), assuming that someone’s character is exemplified by a single action (fundamental attribution error), etc.

This is different from liberal or conservative biases, which have more to do with seeing things through our own worldview. Related, but worth keeping distinct.

The important thing is that it’s common to all humans. Super-smart, rational humans are prone to cognitive biases, just like the rest of us. We all have to fight them. Constant vigilance!

Fallacy

You also don’t hear this term often, but you may if you pay attention to counter-apologetics.

A fallacy is a flaw in an argument. For example, saying an argument is wrong because of where the proponent came from or who they are (genetic fallacy) or saying your argument gets to play by special rules that other arguments don’t (special pleading).

It’s definitely helpful to be familiar with the shapes of these fallacies.

“Stupid questions”

No definition… I want to point out that one of the joys of deconstructing is the pursuit of knowledge; knowledge that was once limited or forbidden. In fact, the even greater joy is the pursuit of knowledge in general, which is one of the most human things we can do.

As a result, it’s worth considering: Is sounding stupid for a moment worth cutting yourself off from these joys?

Suppose you ask “obvious” questions. In reality, you usually don’t sound stupid but curious. And you may do others the service of getting answers to these questions. Win-win!

A whole world of terms exist that I haven’t pursued myself–mostly around sexuality, race, and other topics of the day. I don’t know if it’s because I’m scared to ask or I’m afraid to know the answers.

Are there questions you’re afraid to ask? What other terms may be useful to define?

Resources

  • RationalWiki on Logical Fallacy—The tone of RationalWiki is less gracious than I’m going for, but it’s a helpful resource
  • Thinking, Fast and Slow, by Daniel Kahneman—One of the most important popular works on cognitive biases. It’s also relatively easy to read.
  • The Scout Mindset, by Julia Galef—A very easy and practical introduction into how cognitive biases show up, and what to do about them.
  • Deconversion—A resource on this site that David has put together.

Three Yous

Blog Posts, Deconstruction, Deconversion, Secular Grace, Thought Experiments

Imagine a genie walks (floats? sidles?) up to you and says, “See that guy over there? Yeah, the 80-year-old that looks like he’s having a great time. If you say yes, I’ll make him sad and lonely, riddled with guilt, obsessing over the past. So, shall we?” How would you react?

Assuming you react with disgust or shock, why is that? Seems obvious: It would be awful to do that to someone.

Or try this: someone walks up to you on a playground and says, “See that mom over there? She used to yell at her kids, like super angry stuff. You should go over there and tell her to undo it.”

That’s also inhumane, but why? Again, seems obvious: she can’t do anthing about it. Plus, she’s doing better now. It’ll do a lot of harm, and what good would it do?

Now imagine the 80-year-old guy is your future self, or the mom is your past self. We do those things to ourselves all the time. We beat ourselves up over the past, even though we’re doing better. We shortchange ourselves now, laying the foundation for sadness and loneliness in the future.

For that reason, I like to think of myself as three different people: past Jimmy, Jimmy, and future Jimmy.

With past Jimmy, I try to be kind. An arm-over-the-shoulder, kindly uncle to my past self. Sure, past Jimmy screwed up, but he knows it, and he’s working to do better. Plus, you see how much progress he’s made? Cut him some slack, present Jimmy!

With future Jimmy, I try to be kind. I invest in friendships, knowing that friendship is key to human flourishing. I try to do healthy things, knowing that future Jimmy is the one who’s going to pay for today.

In the end, all we have is right now. The past is unchangeable and the future is unknowable.

I like how James Clear put it, though he’s coming from a self-help perspective:

Be forgiving with your past self.
Be strict with your present self.
Be flexible with your future self.

Being forgiving with your past self sounds pretty healthy to me.

– Jimmy

PS – I literally speak in the third person about past and future Jimmys. (Jimmies?) Try it! it’s weirdly helpful.

You Can’t Change the Past

Blog Posts, Deconversion, Philosophy, Purity Culture

Forget everything else. Keep hold of this alone and remember it: Each of us lives only now, this brief instant. The rest has been lived already, or is impossible to see.

Meditations 3.10 (Hays)

One of the hardest things about deconverting is coming to terms with the fact that there’s so much time already spent: time spent doing what now seems like a complete waste; time spent not doing the things that seem to actually make up a life. So frustrating. Such a waste. Why did purity culture have to happen when I had youth and energy? Why did I spend that youth and energy building up hangups and trauma around sex? Why don’t I know how to have friends?

It’s like Plato’s allegory of the cave was somehow tangled up with that urban legend about waking up after a party, missing a kidney. Or does that metaphor only work for me?

And it’s harder the later in life you deconvert.

One of the most helpful things I’ve found is to accept that the past is gone. Nothing I can do about it, nothing I can do to get it back.

Easier said than done.

First, why is it helpful? If I know I can’t do anything about the past, I can shift my focus on the present moment. The present moment is something I can do something about. Sure, I can learn from the past, but when it comes to making choices, what matters is the here and now.

Even better, if I accept the past as unchangeable, I can be kind to myself, cutting myself some slack for the road ahead.

A thought experiment to take away: What if you were dropped into your current situation? What if you were unceremoniously plopped into the body, memories, life, history, and family of someone else in this situation? What if you knew it wasn’t your life? What would you do? Would you do anything differently? Would you feel differently about the past? How?

– Jimmy

PS – I asked one of these new AI programs for a suggested title for this post. My favorite: “From Kidney Theft to Puritan Lessons: Surviving Unappreciated Time.” …success?

It takes time

Blog Posts, Deconstruction, Deconversion, Hell Anxiety, Religious Trauma

Say you’ve realized you no longer believe, gone through some of the typical stages of deconversion, and are ready to move on with your life, when, Whammo! You’re blindsided by some old feeling from your previous life.

“Why do I still fear Hell?” “Why am I still afraid of being Left Behind?” “Why do I still feel guilty when I stay home from church?” “Why do I still feel guilt around sex? I’m a grown-up, for crying out loud.”

This is one of the hardest things I’ve found day-to-day about being deconverted. I don’t believe any more, but my body doesn’t seem to have got the message.

There’s a lot I can say on this topic, but number one is this:

It takes time.

It takes time to deprogram what took decades to program in the first place. It takes time to get used to who you are today and who you are becoming. It takes time to figure out how to navigate a world where you don’t have a book (or a publishing industry, church, etc.) telling you how to think. It takes time to find new art, new music, new friends, new habits, and new…everything.

I don’t say these things to be overwhelming, though I know from experience it can be. For now, I hope you can be patient with yourself. Be kind. You’ve been through a lot, and it’ll take time.

It’s been several years since I realized I no longer believed, and I can tell you: it gets better. There’s a wide, wonderful world of truly incredible people, experiences, places, ideas. This whole world is now open to you.

– Jimmy

Come to the Edge

Blog Posts, Deconstruction, Deconversion, Secular Community, Secular Grace

Come to the Edge 

by Christopher Logue

Come to the edge.

We might fall.

Come to the edge.

It’s too high!

COME TO THE EDGE!

And they came,

And he pushed, 

And they flew.

The edge—the brink, the threshold, the end. The edge is where you may, with one false step, plummet to your death. The edge is where uncertainty lies, and that’s terrifying. 

When we get to the edge of nearly anything, our limbic system kicks in and screams, “You’re about to die. Stop! Turn back!” We want to run away. And if staying alive is our highest objective, perhaps we should. But is there not more to life than simply surviving?

If I leave christianity, where will I go? 

If I keep asking these questions, who will be there to answer them? 

If I no longer have faith, what will I have? 

The thing is: you don’t know. Everything about standing at the edge is uncertain. But, if you’re honest with yourself, wasn’t life uncertain back living inside the fences?

Still too much outside your control. Now, at least, you can acknowledge that truth and move forward. Do it.

Do it, scared. 

Do it, full of doubt. 

Do it, seeking help along the way. 

But do it, move forward toward the edge. Let yourself be pushed and then fly. You may be pleasantly surprised at the trip. 

–Arline