This week’s guest is Jose Ramos, Hannah’s husband from her episode two weeks ago. Jose’s family converted to Independent Fundamentalist Baptist and his father became a pastor. They were taught that the IFB had the “pure word of God,” and it was their purpose to evangelize and change the world. Throughout his teens, Jose’s only rebellion was, “like a month partying with [his] brothers.” Later, he went to Bible College, and then started preaching. He met Hannah and took over his father’s Spanish speaking church. Studying the Bible for ministry, however, brought more questions and doubts. Over the next year, he continued preaching but knew he didn’t believe. He left the ministry and later told Hannah why. After another hard and depressive year, he knew he was agnostic. Jose gave Hannah the space to go on her own journey. They still attended church as a family, but he did not try to change her. Today, their stories can give comfort to other couples facing religious doubts and uncertainties. Jose’s honesty and vulnerability show the grace and goodness in his own human heart. No more looking forward to heaven or fearing hell, simply being present in each movement and looking for the beauty that’s found there. Recommendations Books #PaidLinks Sapiens by Yuval Noah Harari https://amzn.to/3xuaddv (Also available in graphic novel form) https://amzn.to/319PbEF https://amzn.to/3E93tV2 Homo Deus by Yuval Noah Harari https://amzn.to/3CXUNiF Podcasts Sam Harris’ Making Sense https://www.samharris.org/ Links Hannah’s episode https://gracefulatheist.com/2021/11/14/hannah-ramos-unequally-yoked-to-deconverted/ Clergy Project https://clergyproject.org/ Interact Deconversion https://gracefulatheist.com/2017/12/03/deconversion-how-to/ Secular Grace https://gracefulatheist.com/2016/10/21/secular-grace/ Attribution "Waves" track written and produced by Makaih Beats https://makaihbeats.net/ — Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/gracefulatheist/message Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/gracefulatheist/support